Comments on: Cross-border chit chat http://blog.dawn.com/2009/02/16/cross-border-chit-chat/ Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:46:02 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Dilip http://blog.dawn.com/2009/02/16/cross-border-chit-chat/comment-page-4/#comment-4907 Dilip Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000 http://65.175.69.168:91/dblog/?p=59#comment-4907 I also feel same as Mohammed Hassanali, my co worker Faiza is pakistani and I came to know that very late but nothing changed when I came to know that coz she's a nice person and in fact that made me more curious to learn the way she thinks and many more things, I love to play with her amazing kids..all four boyz from 6 month to 15 yrs age....they are simply awesome, but they dont know about cricket and they play base ball...one day I taught them basics of cricket :)...after all we are same ppl and we can live together here....because here we dont have dirty politics ...here we dont have borders in between...Nehru wasnt my god and Jinnah wasnt urs...so thr's no point following them blindly ...we are all unique ppl and we should follow our own ideology instead of becoming scape goats of dirty unruly politicians and extremists..... I also feel same as Mohammed Hassanali, my co worker Faiza is pakistani and I came to know that very late but nothing changed when I came to know that coz she’s a nice person and in fact that made me more curious to learn the way she thinks and many more things, I love to play with her amazing kids..all four boyz from 6 month to 15 yrs age….they are simply awesome, but they dont know about cricket and they play base ball…one day I taught them basics of cricket :) …after all we are same ppl and we can live together here….because here we dont have dirty politics …here we dont have borders in between…Nehru wasnt my god and Jinnah wasnt urs…so thr’s no point following them blindly …we are all unique ppl and we should follow our own ideology instead of becoming scape goats of dirty unruly politicians and extremists…..

]]> By: DIlip http://blog.dawn.com/2009/02/16/cross-border-chit-chat/comment-page-4/#comment-4906 DIlip Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000 http://65.175.69.168:91/dblog/?p=59#comment-4906 Hello Ppl :) Well there are so many problems and so many solutions also, but nothing is working out..why? because we dont mind our own biz. Seriously we are obstacles in each other's harmony and progress so now when partition has already happened then we should respect that ideology since we cant un-partition it no matter how hard we try. Things will be much better if we start thinking about our own countries...start loving our own country more instead of wasting time in hating neighbors, anyways we dont do much biz wid each other and how good relations we have personally that's also very much known. So its better to stop bothering each other and start living in our own world. I do want people to people contacts and good relations but its just not practical...we have come to o far to go back now...only thing possible now is to finally break all ties...seal the borders and seal all issues ...no talks not disputes....I know we dont want this either....then what we really want to do :) Hello Ppl :)

Well there are so many problems and so many solutions also, but nothing is working out..why? because we dont mind our own biz. Seriously we are obstacles in each other’s harmony and progress so now when partition has already happened then we should respect that ideology since we cant un-partition it no matter how hard we try. Things will be much better if we start thinking about our own countries…start loving our own country more instead of wasting time in hating neighbors, anyways we dont do much biz wid each other and how good relations we have personally that’s also very much known. So its better to stop bothering each other and start living in our own world. I do want people to people contacts and good relations but its just not practical…we have come to o far to go back now…only thing possible now is to finally break all ties…seal the borders and seal all issues …no talks not disputes….I know we dont want this either….then what we really want to do :)

]]> By: Ajay Mishra http://blog.dawn.com/2009/02/16/cross-border-chit-chat/comment-page-4/#comment-4892 Ajay Mishra Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000 http://65.175.69.168:91/dblog/?p=59#comment-4892 In my last comment I meant Muslim community in India has increased to 20% from partition. Also I forgot to add one point, I strongly condemn godhra killings and I hope justice is delivered and perpetrators go behing bars. Process has started. SC has ordered Special investigation team which has found many high profile ppl guilty and are under arrest while some absconding. But still I know its gonna be very very difficult to obtain complete justice and these r few things that I dont like abt my country. But I accept the mistakes instead of hiding it. We are atleast working and are on right path because road to correction starts with acceptance! In my last comment I meant Muslim community in India has increased to 20% from partition. Also I forgot to add one point, I strongly condemn godhra killings and I hope justice is delivered and perpetrators go behing bars. Process has started. SC has ordered Special investigation team which has found many high profile ppl guilty and are under arrest while some absconding. But still I know its gonna be very very difficult to obtain complete justice and these r few things that I dont like abt my country. But I accept the mistakes instead of hiding it. We are atleast working and are on right path because road to correction starts with acceptance!

]]> By: Mohammed Hassanali http://blog.dawn.com/2009/02/16/cross-border-chit-chat/comment-page-4/#comment-4793 Mohammed Hassanali Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000 http://65.175.69.168:91/dblog/?p=59#comment-4793 It is strange to see that majority of the bloggers on this forum giving their impression are ofcourse Indians and Pakistanis but settled in countries other than their own. Why is it that we Indians and Pakistanis have cordial relations when living away from our respective countries in foriegn lands. I'd rather say not just cordial relations but rather getting close enough to even getting married? I myself am the example. Germany fought 2 world wars. Most of these major wars were fought on the European continent. The sum total of casualties from these two wars only in Europe amounts to about 12 million not counting the injured and maimed which almost double that amount. I would'nt want to go into details of the past of the Indian sub continent on who was right and who was wrong. Rather, I would just want to argue that if Germany, after these two murderous wars, was crushed and razed to earthby the Allied forces, is again a European economic powerhouse, that other European countries of Allied forces came to terms that, after all, Germany is and will always remain part of Europe, that it has to play its role in the future of Europe. Why can't we the people of Indian sub-continent, who, just 62 years ago were still the same country, live and work and trade in harmony? If Europeans can forget their animosity to make Europe again a leading power of the world, why can't we do the same thing? What is stopping us to do so. In my opinion, the only thing missing in people of both the countries (three countries in fact now that Bangladesh is also a seperate country)is the lack of education. India has made great strides in that drection and result is quite visible. But my country Pakistan and Bangladesh are lagging way behind and just because of that, all other kinds of problems have found their way. Corrupt politicians and religious fendementalism are a product of the same problem. The question is how to eradicate this problem and I am ashamed I don't have a solution to this. I hope there would be people behing me who would pick up the discussion and try and suggest the soultions to this ever worsening problem without which, acheiving peace will be quite a difficult job. It is strange to see that majority of the bloggers on this forum giving their impression are ofcourse Indians and Pakistanis but settled in countries other than their own.
Why is it that we Indians and Pakistanis have cordial relations when living away from our respective countries in foriegn lands. I’d rather say not just cordial relations but rather getting close enough to even getting married? I myself am the example.
Germany fought 2 world wars. Most of these major wars were fought on the European continent. The sum total of casualties from these two wars only in Europe amounts to about 12 million not counting the injured and maimed which almost double that amount.
I would’nt want to go into details of the past of the Indian sub continent on who was right and who was wrong. Rather, I would just want to argue that if Germany, after these two murderous wars, was crushed and razed to earthby the Allied forces, is again a European economic powerhouse, that other European countries of Allied forces came to terms that, after all, Germany is and will always remain part of Europe, that it has to play its role in the future of Europe. Why can’t we the people of Indian sub-continent, who, just 62 years ago were still the same country, live and work and trade in harmony?
If Europeans can forget their animosity to make Europe again a leading power of the world, why can’t we do the same thing? What is stopping us to do so.
In my opinion, the only thing missing in people of both the countries (three countries in fact now that Bangladesh is also a seperate country)is the lack of education. India has made great strides in that drection and result is quite visible. But my country Pakistan and Bangladesh are lagging way behind and just because of that, all other kinds of problems have found their way. Corrupt politicians and religious fendementalism are a product of the same problem.
The question is how to eradicate this problem and I am ashamed I don’t have a solution to this.
I hope there would be people behing me who would pick up the discussion and try and suggest the soultions to this ever worsening problem without which, acheiving peace will be quite a difficult job.

]]> By: yash http://blog.dawn.com/2009/02/16/cross-border-chit-chat/comment-page-4/#comment-4773 yash Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000 http://65.175.69.168:91/dblog/?p=59#comment-4773 Dear Pakistanis, I dont know about the Pak side of the story. But I can tell what majority of the middle class Indians feel about Pak. Basically majority of them are indifferent about Pak. Our major trading partners are India, China and the West. These countries matter to us and Pak doesnt. The only thing we want is for Pak to stop sending murderers from Let, Jaish e Mohammed etc... We dont see Pak as a threat. China is the real threat. At the same time it is a big trading partner. Even though China is threat, its a RATIONAL country and is not traversing the path of the self destruction as Pak is doing. We really dont mind what happens inside Pak but all we want is for you to stop sending terrorists to other nations. I guess that is what USA and west also wants. Thanks, Yash. Dear Pakistanis,

I dont know about the Pak side of the story. But I can tell what majority of the middle class Indians feel about Pak.

Basically majority of them are indifferent about Pak. Our major trading partners are India, China and the West. These countries matter to us and Pak doesnt. The only thing we want is for Pak to stop sending murderers from Let, Jaish e Mohammed etc…

We dont see Pak as a threat. China is the real threat. At the same time it is a big trading partner. Even though China is threat, its a RATIONAL country and is not traversing the path of the self destruction as Pak is doing.

We really dont mind what happens inside Pak but all we want is for you to stop sending terrorists to other nations. I guess that is what USA and west also wants.

Thanks,
Yash.

]]> By: Shakir Lakhani http://blog.dawn.com/2009/02/16/cross-border-chit-chat/comment-page-4/#comment-4772 Shakir Lakhani Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000 http://65.175.69.168:91/dblog/?p=59#comment-4772 I have always been a committed secularist in that I do not believe in discriminating against minorities. But when I see the hatred displayed by Indian Hindus against Pakistanis, I'm appalled. I always regretted that my father had migrated to Pakistan in 1947, leaving behind his house and belongings. He always told me that after Partition, Muslims could not feel safe in India. This has been proved by the massacre of Muslims in Gujrat and during communal riots in India (this has never happened in Pakistan after a few incidents in 1947). Recently Varun Gandhi's threat to Muslims makes me wonder if there is such a thing as a secular Indian Hindu. By the way, Pakistani Hindus are treated well by the Muslims (my own family doctor is a Sindhi Hindu). As far as the disputes between India and Pakistan are concerned, relations have been exacerbated mostly by India. Invasion of J&K, Junagadh, Hyderabad, blocking of river water in 1948 and again last year, massing of troops on the border with threats of invasion, maintaining 13 consulates in Afghanistan (with which it has no border) to destabilize Pakistan. In fact, if I were an Indian, I would wonder why the Indian government spends so much money on the thirteen Afghan consulates or sending rockets to the moon and not doing anything to feed the 836 million hungry Indians who live on Rs. 20 (40 U.S. cents) per day! I have always been a committed secularist in that I do not believe in discriminating against minorities. But when I see the hatred displayed by Indian Hindus against Pakistanis, I’m appalled. I always regretted that my father had migrated to Pakistan in 1947, leaving behind his house and belongings. He always told me that after Partition, Muslims could not feel safe in India. This has been proved by the massacre of Muslims in Gujrat and during communal riots in India (this has never happened in Pakistan after a few incidents in 1947). Recently Varun Gandhi’s threat to Muslims makes me wonder if there is such a thing as a secular Indian Hindu. By the way, Pakistani Hindus are treated well by the Muslims (my own family doctor is a Sindhi Hindu). As far as the disputes between India and Pakistan are concerned, relations have been exacerbated mostly by India. Invasion of J&K, Junagadh, Hyderabad, blocking of river water in 1948 and again last year, massing of troops on the border with threats of invasion, maintaining 13 consulates in Afghanistan (with which it has no border) to destabilize Pakistan. In fact, if I were an Indian, I would wonder why the Indian government spends so much money on the thirteen Afghan consulates or sending rockets to the moon and not doing anything to feed the 836 million hungry Indians who live on Rs. 20 (40 U.S. cents) per day!

]]> By: kumruddin hilawal shiekh http://blog.dawn.com/2009/02/16/cross-border-chit-chat/comment-page-4/#comment-4752 kumruddin hilawal shiekh Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000 http://65.175.69.168:91/dblog/?p=59#comment-4752 Its all Politics. Politics of Power and Religion. How to solve INDO-PAK problem ! ? Have confidence building measures, make people of each others country trust in each other, just remove the hate , which would remove the borders, and the animosity, if people in south asia can freely travel and have a common currency all other issues including Kashmir Issue would become fictitious. Its all Politics.
Politics of Power and Religion.
How to solve INDO-PAK problem ! ?
Have confidence building measures, make people of each others country trust in each other, just remove the hate , which would remove the borders, and the animosity, if people in south asia can freely travel and have a common currency all other issues including Kashmir Issue would become fictitious.

]]> By: Sam http://blog.dawn.com/2009/02/16/cross-border-chit-chat/comment-page-4/#comment-4738 Sam Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000 http://65.175.69.168:91/dblog/?p=59#comment-4738 Usman Khan, It is nice to communicate with you. Even though I do not agree to some of your points. It is not like there is one bad thing and if that is stopped everything could be good. Sometimes a single event can change the outcome and I agree with that. But in my opinion it is not a single event, it is more of a wave after wave after wave type phenomenon. Once a politician or polcitical party is formed with an idealogy, that they cannot live with someone,,, it takes a long time to turn the tide. Usually it doesnt happen in one's lifetime. With Jinnah claiming Muslims and Hindu's cannot live together, even he or someone from Congress compromised, it would have been at best a temporary phenomenon. That idea of exclusion or purity or Ummah is so powerful that it has to run its course. It is still going on and it may probably take another 50yrs or more. The underlying criteria is, we are different or we are better, or we are right and the only way, or....some level of superiority and the exclusion which comes with it. So no wonder, Pakistan thought only Urdu should be the official language. So to maintain that exclusivity, they have to make Bengali speaking muslims suffer and become independant. It is the opposite of live/letlive and respect each other philosophy. So please quote those papers which are de-classified and if there are available on the net. Writing about events 60-70yrs is old. If the current writers cannot do justice for events which happened in 1971 and discuss rationally why India did not absorb East Pakistan, i do not really beleive in their writing. What would you say about 1971 and not absorbing Bangladesh. For me, it is an accepted issue, and India did not want to revisit that again and move forward. It is not the same circumstances or the leaders who were in in 1940's and 1970's. But the underlying philosophy is acceptance and moving forward. Even if Congress accepted partition reluctanly or eagerly in 1947, the situation is far different in 1971. There is no single strategy that works in all situations. If pakistan wants the most difficult issue to be resolved firt, that is their approach. In some situations people cannot get over the important facts and it is of utmost importance. So be it. For India and China, there are some unresolved border issues, but they are doing trade to the extent of $50Billion. But for Pakistan if they are expecting some other issue to be resolved, let us agree to be neutral. We should give up the possibility of being friendly neighbors. If we cannot be neutral and indifferent, how can we be friendly. There is no universal rule which says, neighbors have to be your friends. In many big cities, as long as you have neutral neighbors that is good enough. Usman Khan,
It is nice to communicate with you.
Even though I do not agree to some of your points.

It is not like there is one bad thing and if that is stopped everything could be good. Sometimes a single event can change the outcome and I agree with that.

But in my opinion it is not a single event, it is more of a wave after wave after wave type phenomenon.

Once a politician or polcitical party is formed with an idealogy, that they cannot live with someone,,, it takes a long time to turn the tide.

Usually it doesnt happen in one’s lifetime.
With Jinnah claiming Muslims and Hindu’s cannot live together, even he or someone from Congress compromised, it would have been at best a temporary phenomenon.

That idea of exclusion or purity or Ummah is so powerful that it has to run its course. It is still going on and it may probably take another 50yrs or more. The underlying criteria is, we are different or we are better, or we are right and the only way, or….some level of superiority and the exclusion which comes with it.

So no wonder, Pakistan thought only Urdu should be the official language. So to maintain that exclusivity, they have to make Bengali speaking muslims suffer and become independant.

It is the opposite of live/letlive and respect each other philosophy.

So please quote those papers which are de-classified and if there are available on the net. Writing about events 60-70yrs is old. If the current writers cannot do justice for events which happened in 1971 and discuss rationally why India did not absorb East Pakistan, i do not really beleive in their writing.

What would you say about 1971 and not absorbing Bangladesh. For me, it is an accepted issue, and India did not want to revisit that again and move forward.
It is not the same circumstances or the leaders who were in in 1940’s and 1970’s.
But the underlying philosophy is acceptance and moving forward.

Even if Congress accepted partition reluctanly or eagerly in 1947, the situation is far different in 1971.

There is no single strategy that works in all situations. If pakistan wants the most difficult issue to be resolved firt, that is their approach. In some situations people cannot get over the important facts and it is of utmost importance.

So be it.

For India and China, there are some unresolved border issues, but they are doing trade to the extent of $50Billion.

But for Pakistan if they are expecting some other issue to be resolved, let us agree to be neutral.

We should give up the possibility of being friendly neighbors. If we cannot be neutral and indifferent, how can we be friendly.

There is no universal rule which says, neighbors have to be your friends.
In many big cities, as long as you have neutral neighbors that is good enough.

]]> By: chinmay http://blog.dawn.com/2009/02/16/cross-border-chit-chat/comment-page-4/#comment-4722 chinmay Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000 http://65.175.69.168:91/dblog/?p=59#comment-4722 well..well.i think our future generations will curse us,like in hiroshima and nagasaki.like in auschwitz(germany) and world wars. if we won't solve kashmeer issue peacefully mark my words,future will hold this era responsible for a future nuke war between india and pakistan. so,forget all the atrocities,acknowledge the fact that the LOC will remain intact for years to come.what's there at the moment is the respective parts(except aksai chin). so,plz india and pakistan,meet with open hearts and thoughts. the world take a great pleasure when india and pakistan go bickering woth each other. people of pakistan must not morally,financially and politically support the jehadis who try to spread enmosity. it is not like that india and pakistan have a lot of cultural differnces.differences is of beliefs and hearts. well..well.i think our future generations will curse us,like in hiroshima and nagasaki.like in auschwitz(germany) and world wars.
if we won’t solve kashmeer issue peacefully mark my words,future will hold this era responsible for a future nuke war between india and pakistan.
so,forget all the atrocities,acknowledge the fact that the LOC will remain intact for years to come.what’s there at the moment is the respective parts(except aksai chin).
so,plz india and pakistan,meet with open hearts and thoughts.
the world take a great pleasure when india and pakistan go bickering woth each other.
people of pakistan must not morally,financially and politically support the jehadis who try to spread enmosity.
it is not like that india and pakistan have a lot of cultural differnces.differences is of beliefs and hearts.

]]> By: Imran Anees http://blog.dawn.com/2009/02/16/cross-border-chit-chat/comment-page-4/#comment-4699 Imran Anees Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000 http://65.175.69.168:91/dblog/?p=59#comment-4699 Dear Ram, Even though your comment on jinnah being a genius, brought a silly smile to my face you are so wrong. I am a Muslim living in India and am extremely happy. Besides my family I still have not come across one muslim who would rather be in Pakistan. I wish you had read the article of MJ Akbar in the Sunday Times last week where he was mentioning about him giving a lecture to a group of Muslim student and he told them all of how grateful they should be to their respective families for not crossing over the border when they had the chance. We love India and can very easily die for India. Regards, Imran. Dear Ram,

Even though your comment on jinnah being a genius, brought a silly smile to my face you are so wrong.

I am a Muslim living in India and am extremely happy. Besides my family I still have not come across one muslim who would rather be in Pakistan.

I wish you had read the article of MJ Akbar in the Sunday Times last week where he was mentioning about him giving a lecture to a group of Muslim student and he told them all of how grateful they should be to their respective families for not crossing over the border when they had the chance.

We love India and can very easily die for India.

Regards,
Imran.

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