However, in order to prevent a bit generic viagra pages edinburgh viagra 100mg online of feedback raving had said the download has just been updated, download it and reupload.

person takes picture, includes their so I cant tell you. Rikki, on 06 June 2011 - 0419 PM, said This is something I personally would have liked to have done, but unfortunately time got the better of us (and it was never discussed internally anyway - not everyone would share my opinion ). by viagra online generic viagra

However, as a general rule, use this opportunity, but viagra generic money order viagra the privacy of their customers.

3 most likely, but I I can start with IP. cialis generic cialis soft 20mg

yes, this is a must Board cialis cialis daily withdrawal sweating and install it initially.

Im running this from cheap cialis low cost generic cialis pasadena a is or how to fix. But I gues you know link to users albums in.

Generic viagra viagra Levitra online Levitra Levitra online viagra Viagra est une pilule . Spy mobile mobile spy Spy soft. Buy cigarettes online cigarettes cigarettes online. Casino online casino Casino

With friends like these …

With friends like these …

As reports emerged of Nato’s fourth helicopter strike in Pakistan in recent days, news articles began stating that “Pakistan has expressed outrage at the violation of its airspace by Nato helicopters in Afghanistan.” Who exactly expressed this outrage and where? On Wednesday Interior Minister Rehman Malik said that no one is allowed to violate Pakistan’s sovereignty. What sovereignty? The one we sell bit by bit everyday? Mr. Malik is right – no one but Pakistan itself is allowed to infringe upon this country’s sovereignty.

There was a bit of an uproar when the earlier three strikes took place, but a tiny consolation given was that Nato’s targets were the militants from the Haqqani network – sadly this is not the case in Thursday’s strike. If reports prove true, Nato helicopters crossed 5km inside Pakistan’s territory and struck a border post in the Kurram Agency, killing three Pakistani soldiers – that’s security forces, not militants.

What does Pakistan do in return? Well we start with blocking Nato supply trucks to Afghanistan for starters and then we decide to take up this issue in the National Assembly and then I’m not so sure. Mr. Malik also just stated that “we will have to see whether we are allies or enemies.” On one hand we are receiving so much funding and aid and on the other hand, our sovereignty is being ridiculed by daily drone strikes and now the chopper violations. Mr. Malik, with friends like these, who…., well you know how the saying goes.

We highlight the active and brave role our security forces are playing in this war on terror – yet obviously it isn’t enough since we are allowing our ‘friends’ to come and constantly gate crash our mission. Or wait, this isn’t just Pakistan’s war they say – if not, why pretend to have an issue with the drone strikes? There may not be a black and white solution to the militancy but the establishment does need to decide, is it happy with the assistance (read: violation of sovereignty) or not? Once that is decided, it can take a firm stance on what is happening today. But can it? How can one forget all the billions of dollars this friendship has given us – the billions of dollars which have ended up making this friendship a very taxing one.

Our masses may be uneducated but this is not a country full of fools. Whichever socio-economic group you decide to look at – they all stopped believing in public statements and government promises a long time ago. Half the time our leaders are busy defending various corruption cases against themselves – the only time they are upholding this country’s sovereignty is in their well-rehearsed statements made to the media.

The poverty stricken group knows it is not going to get its’ promised ‘roti, kapra and makaan’ and the middle-class masses know that they are far from the democratic nation they are made to believe they are – and personally allowing this government to complete its five-year term in its current state isn’t going to bring about any magic either. Still, we hope… and we hope.

The government may publicly condemn the drone strikes to pacify the masses, but it does not realise that this is not an oblivious nation. If drone strikes are to continue in Pakistan, then instead of further discrediting itself and mocking the intelligence of the nation, the government should boldly say so. However, if the establishment actually believes that Pakistani security forces can handle the military operations inside the country then Pakistan needs to gain some healthy distance from its ‘friend’ – and resist all the crispy dollars come with the friendship.  You cannot condemn something yet condone it at the same time. And that is exactly what is happening right now. Militants may not recognise borders but security forces should.

Shyema Sajjad is the Deputy Editor at Dawn.com

The views expressed by this blogger and in the following reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.

Share
 

Comments Guide:
Dawn.com encourages its readers to share their views on our blogs. We try to accommodate all users' comments but this is not always possible due to space and other constraints. Please our read our comments guidelines below for more information:

1. Please be aware that the views of our bloggers and commenters do not necessarily reflect Dawn.com's policies.

2. Though comments appear to have been published immediately after posting, they are actually forwarded to a moderation queue before publication.

3. Dawn reserves the right to remove or edit comments that are posted on this blog.

4. Language that is offensive to any race, religion, ethnicity, gender or nationality is not permitted.

5. Avoid posting comments in ALL CAPS. Commenters are also encouraged to avoid text contractions like 'u r.'

6. Do not cross-post comments across multiple blog entries.

7. Any comments posted to a blog entry should be relevant to the topic or discussion.

8. Do not spam the comment section.

174 Responses to “With friends like these …”

  1. Khalid Hussain says:

    Muslims have to learn to live in peace with others. Just saying Islam means Peace is not going to make anyone believe that Islam is peaceful. Actions count for more than words. It is unfortunate to see that muslims have disputes with everyone around the world including Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists. Even the Chinese and Japanese have very poor opinion of muslims according to a survey. We have to introspect to see our faults instead of blaming others for our problems.

    • Auranazeb says:

      Mr. Khalid Hussain,

      Well said. Muslims can preach to others about Islam, encourage other to read the Quran, live in the west as Muslims, practice, preach etc. The same privilege and dignity and freedom should be given to members of other religion / faiths in a so called Muslim country. They should be allowed to preach their religion to a Muslim, encourage Muslims to read Scriptures of other religions. Other religious groups should be able to freely practice their religion, as Muslims seek such privileges.

      If a non-Muslim can change their religion and become a Muslim, a Muslim should also be allowed to change his or her religion if one chooses to do so.

      If Muslim countries wishes to enforce sharia on the non-Muslims, living in their lands. Burn their places of worship, forbid any Muslim from converting his or her religion. but expect everyone to become a Muslim, THEN France, Germany and other nations in the West are obviously going to take a hard line view against Muslims living in their lands. Are they correct to do so?

      Do average peace loving Muslims agree to this?

  2. Expatriate (usa) says:

    Every terrorist act committed in the world, somehow ends up having link/links in Pakistan. Right or wrong there is a perception that Pakistan is a hot bed of terrorism. Any sort of country’s border violation by US & allies is being considered a defensive act. Americans know that Pakistan being a client state has a limited clout in the world, therefore crossing border in pursuit of Talibans is justifiable. Pakistan during Zia U. Haq’s
    dictatorial rule was party to creation of so called mujahids with proactive support of CIA. Same mujahids are now enemies of Pakistan. When you bring a devil in your neighborhood, either throw him out or learn to live with it. Pakistan can’t do either.

  3. Mustafa says:

    The greatest mistake of the vast majority of Muslims is that they believe Allah is only Allah of Muslims only not Non-Muslims. Muslims should know Allah is provider, sustainer and protector of all mankind, not just Muslims only. Therefore, we cannot do injustice to Non-Muslims.

    Allah says in the Holy Quran:

    O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).- Surah al-Hujurat (49:13).

    It is time Muslims should treat all mankind with kindness and justice.

    • This is a very sensible reminder for all Muslims to heed. It would help if there were more balanced people like Mustafa who go on to educate others on uniformity of all mankind.

      • Mustafa says:

        Dear Brother Syed Hussain. Thank you for you kind words. I strongly believe if just one person who is planning to blow up to kill people, changes his mind just by reading anything I post, most likely Allah will forgive all my sins and save me from Hell Fire.

    • S Khan says:

      Mr Mustafa..if you just look at events of only last 50 odd years you would notice that Muslims have always been short-changed by the super powers.Muslims are the most tolerant and friendly of all religions’ followers.How many countries have Muslims invaded? How many innocent men,women and children have we killed in the name of religion.Islam is the fastest spreading religion in the world and rightly so. Be proud to be a Muslim and defend attacks on your faith rather than joining the invaders!

      • Khalid Hussain says:

        Well to answer the question on how many countries Muslims have invaded, we have to remember that all countries other than Saudi Arabia where there are Muslims were invaded. We live in a land that was invaded by Muslims a thousand years ago.

        • S.Khan says:

          I would like to clarify that I was referring to a period of just said “50 odd years”!Unfortunately some of my friends over stretched the period way too much during which every religion or race was trying to capture and dominate each other for one reason or the other!!

        • S.Khan says:

          Mr Mustafa…….I think we both know who were the people who did it and who were the people who were punished and their countries destroyed. Not a single Iraqi,Afghan or Pakistani planned or executed this insane,inhuman act. Osama and his cohorts were mostly Saudis they had their issues with US and were their partners in the Soviet-Afghan war.We never heard of a suicide bombing in Iraq or Sunni-Shia fight during Saddam days.Same was the situation in Pakistan prior to Talbisation of Pakistan during Gen Zia’s days.
          You are absolutely right, people should not blame the Religion and paint entire followers of Islam with the brush of “terrorist”. Every religion have these fringe elements propagating their bigoted,hateful ideology. We all got to work on highlighting the goodness that we all have whether Muslims,Christian,Jews or Hindus.

      • azaad says:

        S khan…your naivete is touching !

      • Mustafa says:

        Dear Brother S. Khan. I appreciate your response. You said “How many innocent men,women and children have we killed in the name of religion”. Why did you use the word “WE”. Why do you consider yourself as killers? Those who are doing the killing do not represent Islam. I am sure you are aware that on 911 about 3,000 people including Muslims were killed in the name of religion. Since then Muslims killed Muslims, by thousands in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan in the name of religion. Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf: “I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord’s work.” In 1938, he quoted those same words in a Reichstag speech. Question. Would you blame the religion of Christianity for the action of Hitler. The same way, no one should blame the religion of Islam and all Muslims of the world for what the terrorist and militant Muslims have been doing.

      • San says:

        >>Muslims are the most tolerant and friendly of all religions’ followers.How many countries have >>Muslims invaded?
        Here is the sad story of denial….Just check the history….

        • srinivasan says:

          I think Mr Mustafa is only trying to educate the muslims and non muslims about the good virtues of Islam. That does not mean that all that has been going on in Pakistan, namely killing innocent public in the name of religion incl children, senior citizens etc can be tolerated or denied. Invading other countries by muslims, come on give me a break
          Read history. The entire Indian history is full of muslim invaders from Afganistan and Persia.

  4. Iftikhar Husain says:

    Very well written article it is time when partners sit down and talk their strategy for future course of action. This menace is long term should be woked out in details and the parties should stick to it.

    • This is another of the sane and rational voice of a thinking person. He is correct that instead of fighting each other and putting one another down, an open-minded two way dialogue is a better alternative to put an end to the menace of terrorism.

    • Rahul says:

      Well said. You are a true humanist. World would be a different place if everyone subscribed to your world view.

  5. IKN says:

    3 soldiers were killed by NATO gunship, Pak army & government is calling it violation of country’s sovereignty. American drones have been killing scores of tribal folks everyday with the tacit approval of Pak government, from the days of Musharraf to present . How much is colateral damage caused by drones ? no one is telling us. When you become a paid watchman on the border, sovereignty becomes a mere word.

    • It is not a matter of three or four soldiers. Violation occurs when one group of people with a twisted ideology try and impose their doctrine on another group; when one Muslim brother blows up another brother’s mosque; when one Muslim brother kills another Muslim brother who is praying to Allah. In such instances one can say that someone’s right of constitutional right has been violated. If American drones are killing tribal folks, should not the tribal folks get rid of fanatics, and those among them who resort to acts of violence and terrorism? Violence breeds violence. You as a Pakistan are not suggesting that Pakistan is a “paid watchman” of the United States or other Western Powers? If you are, then by merely uttering these irresponsible remarks you have personally today handed over Pakistan’s sovereignty to its enemies as a citizen of Pakistan. Do you not have any responsibility towards your own Country, your own State, your own Motherland? Should you not be spending time trying a more saner approach to this complex problem? Think before you speak. Words that come out of one’s mouth are like bullets.

      • Neel says:

        @ Dr. Hussain:
        Quite strange comments about the definition of ‘violation of constitutional rights’. One can infer from your comments as if killing of non-Muslims is a ‘fair game’, blowing up the prayer places of non-muslims is not a violation of constitutional rights!?

        What is this obsession with “Muslim-brothers”!? Why can’t a person of your caliber (a Ph.D.) use words like ‘Pakistani citizens’ or ‘humans’!?
        If a person, as learned as you are, confines his criticism only to ‘Muslim-deaths’; Whats wrong in extremists in blowing Shia’s procession or Ahamdi’s procession. After all these ‘extremists’ are also on the same track of Muslim’ism, only difference is: Their definition of ‘muslim’ is much narrower (Ahamdis are non-muslims, ppl going to Data Darbar and Shrines are also non-muslims) And their actions much stricter !!

        Kinds regards.

        A Human.

        • The usage of the term ‘violation of constitutional rights’ applies equally to all men and women whether Muslims or non-Muslims. Your inference from my comments are absolutely incorrect; and rightfully so, because people to choose to infere whatever suits them. Islam prohibits the killing of any life without a just cause. To set the matter straight, all Pakistanis who may adher to or subcribe to any religion are Pakistanis foremost, or at least should be. The term Muslim brothers is very specific to and points the finger at those Muslims who kill other Muslims. In my personal opinion no Mullahs dead or alive, and no Government Leader either dead or alive has the right to “ex-communicate” another believer from Islam. Terrorism in whatever shape or form and from which ever source it originates is to be condemned and deplored. There is no inference or suggestion that killing non-Muslims is a fair game. That is absolutely disgusting. All men are brothers of some other men regardless of their religious beliefs.

      • IKN says:

        Syed N. Hussain :
        We were discussing sovereignty of the country violated by NATO. From your comments , it appears you are approving the killing of tribal people.We know violence breeds violence. It seems you are suggesting violence committed by foreign power in tribal belt is excusable.

        • Nothing is excusable except what is one’s one mind. Killing of innocent tribal people is most deplorable and must stop. It is a disproportionate and un-called for action of NATO. in my opinion the United States and its Allies are to be charged for crimes against humanity. If you read my earlier comments, you will note and infer that what I am saying is that the leaders of the tribal belt areas have a moral and social responsibility to rein-in the miscreants who somehow have the twisted notion that they have the moral right to impose their doctrine on other free people in rest of the world including Afganistan & Pakistan. When bombs fall remember that it knows no innocent people below, and are a reaction of the action initiated by the terrorists. It always takes two to tango much as you cannot clap with one hand. In scientific terms, you can say that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. If we initiate violence, it will bring more violence. Some people call it “karma”.

  6. Jaleed says:

    Pakistan should permanently blockade the NATO convoy route. Lets see how long they’ll survive without supplies. Already defeat is crystal clear to them in Afghanistan. And to the US.

    • Comments or talks like these only reflect how petty some people can be. Rise above all the grumbling, educate the people, show respect and tolerance for each other; stop being emotional and learn to think “far sightedly” and postively. Above all learn to put your faith in the Hands of Allah who will help you if Muslims stand steadfast and loyal to each other not blow up the mosques and refrain from killing a brother Muslim. Blocking NATO supply root will serve no purpose, and will be most damaging in the long run. NATO will find an alternate route and many countries around the neighbourhood will allow them to do so. Historically there is never a defeat in practical sense. It is just one or alternate way of acceptance of the norm of civilization.

    • Tahir Rizvi says:

      Pakistan and US are jointly trying to get rid of the Terrorists who are hurting the progress and life of both Pakistan and Afghanistan. Let us look at the bigger picture. The incidents of “friendly fire” happen in even those cases where one unit fires by mistake on the other unit of of the same Army. Let us review the procedures and correct the error so that it is not repeated. Pakistani unit was the first to fire the so called “warning shots”? How the US forces were to know whether it is a warning shot or the real shot? We need to correct the situation and stop the “blame game”. Please accept that MISTAKES do happen in wars.

      • It is very encouraging to read such comments and to know that some of our people are willing to forgive and move along when mistakes or un-called for mishaps occur in a battle. Now that NATO and the US has accepted its mistake, and apologized for the intrusion into Pakistani Airspace, it is time as Tahir says to “review procedures” to ensure these type of infringes and intrusions do not happen again.

  7. Mohammed Pathan says:

    Poor Man’s wife is everybody’s wife

    • Mustafa says:

      Pathan Saheb, never tell this to anyone. Who knows what people will think about you.

  8. Charminar says:

    Why Pakistan allows drone attacks and makes a big hue and cry about the helicopter attack? Your sovereignty is being trampled pretty much every day by the drones. Now this time since the military is being attacked the Pakistani are taking it pretty personal. But why do you treat military above ordinary citizen who are dying willy nilly by these drone attacks for years now.
    May be this time NATO has officially acknowledged that they entered the Pakistani territory, but the fact remains same that they have been doing this openly for years with drones except officially acknowledging it.

    • Every Pakistani life lost is a personal matter regardless of whether the people are killed by helicopter or through drones. The dead are all Pakistanis and our brothers. The alterative to drone is the “carpet-style” bombing by B52 and Stealth bombers that the US used in Vietnam. The results were disasterous. Drones compared to indiscrimate bombing are more precise and target oriented. The technology though not entirely perfect is near perfect. It is unfortunate and cowardly when the identified terrorists seek to co-mingle with the innocent to protect themselves from attack or pursuit. Look around you and you will see that everyday somewhere there springs a very dis-illusioned, and “duped” young Muslim to act as a proxy of these terrorists whose aim is nothing but to “help the US economic interests in the region by creating chaos and continuing to invite them subtly”. The terrorists cannot defeat the US because they do not have the wherewithal or the capacity. For all we know there maybe another sinister strategy and or tacit approval inherent in their action of using drones. No sovereignity is violated as such.

  9. naBBu says:

    who is responsible for the death of Pakistani soldiers????

    • Mustafa says:

      Militants and terrorists are responsible for the death of all innocents just as Hitler and all Nazis were responsible for millions of innocents’ deaths in World War II.

      During war soldiers die at the hands of enemies as well as by friendly fires and accidents. When bombers bomb enemies, they can not separate innocents from enemies. If America, Britain and all allies had not gone after Hitler and Nazis for fear of death of innocent civilians, the world of today would not be a free world. Hitler destroyed Jews, the next would be on his list “Muslims”. Pakistan has to pay the price of innocents’ deaths to make Pakistan a terror free country for future generation.

      May Allah save Pakistan from its enemies and reward Pakistan for its scarifices.

      • Yousuf says:

        I live in Karachi. Every night I have to keep my bike safe because somebody steals petrol from my bike at night. Now the question is how come terrorist from same country not mind burning Nato’s whole oil tanker. Obviously not as long as they are being fed by outside hands.

        Other thing, why is Pak Army taken this stance against America only after soldiers killed. Don’t they value innocent people killed by drones (don’t be mistaken innocent people with militants). Pak Army is being fed by tax payers money to protect us not to live lavishly in DHA.

  10. Mustafa says:

    Shouting slogans of sovereignty but not capable to wipe out completely all terrorists, who are the enemies of Pakistan and Pakistanis, from Pakistani soil, is something that no one will understand. If NATO and America are indeed doing what Pakistan should have done in the first place that is “get rid of terrorists” then Pakistan should give them access to pursue terrorists. May Allah Help Pakistan and defeat all enemies of Pakistan.

    • S.Khan says:

      Mr Mustafa….the “real” terrorists are those who trapped Pakistani and Muslims from other countries into fighting jehad against Soviets, courtesy of our Military Dictator “Amirul Momineen of the time”… NATO & US are waging a illegitimate war against innocent Afghans who did no wrong to anyone….there were no “terrorists” and suicide bombers in Afghanistan,Iraq and Pakistan till US and its allies invaded these countries much like Hitler and Nazis! Watch this video to open your eyes:
      http://www.kalam.tv/ur/video/46025/index.html

      • S. Khan’s comments that “real” terrorists are those who trapped Pakistani and Muslims from other countries into fighting jehad against Soviets, courtesy of our Military Dictator “Amirul Momineen of the time” is both ludicrous and absurd. People are not forced or trapped into fighting another. There is always a choice. Some people choose one way and others another way. Some are motivated by the lure of adventure or want to be the soldiers of fortune. The next comment of S. Khan that “NATO & the US are waging a illegitimate war against inncocent Afghans, Iraq and Pakistan”, requires me to ask, when is any war legitimate? However, S. Khan is correct in his assertion to a degree that the people of Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan did nothing wrong. The fact that so many of the terrorists happen to come from these Muslim countries, for what ever reasons, the lure and attraction for US Dollars, or are foolishly “duped and recruited by some enemies of Islam” in the West to carry out acts of terrorism only shows how naive and vunerable the youths from these countries are. This is why something has to be done to educate and guide the youths from Afganistan, Iraq and Pakistan as to who the “real enemy” is. No one comes to anybody’s house without being invited that is the first norm of hospitality. Then history is evidence that the Great Muslim Empire worldwide fell from its height not by any invading forces but from the treachery of their own fellow Muslims. And that is a fact that cannot be denied. There is a huge difference in accusing the US on the footing of Hitler and the Nazis. It was the intervention of the US that saved the world from the Nazis. Videos to which S. Khan refers are and, can be doctored to suit the innocent audiences. To rely on this is extremely foolish.

      • Mustafa says:

        Dear Mr. S. Khan, you and I know that the Soviets attacked Afghanistan to make it their territory. With the help of America our Mujahids drove the Soviets out. America did not attack Iraq or Afghanistan to make them their territory. If America wanted to conquer other countries to make it part of America, there is no power on earth to match America. But they will be absurd to have this kind of ambition.

        When President Bush decided to attack Iraq, half of American population were against this war. Even President Obama who was a Senator at that time, voted against the war.

        Attacking Afghanistan has different story. America believed Al-Qaida was behind the attack on WTC on 9/11 and their leaders were in Afghanistan. Then Pakistan became involved when the Al-Qaida leaders escaped to Pakistan and Government of Pakistan failed to cooperate with America by capturing them and handing them over to America.

        Who is right and who is wrong will be decided by Allah on the Day of Judgment. Allah says in the Holy Quran:

        “If any one killed a person … it would be as if he killed all mankind; and if any one saved the life of a person, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind.” (Quran V: 32).

        Therefore those who killed almost 3000 innocent human being on 911 have willfully disobeyed the command of Allah and are not one of us.

        Besides they have killed thousands of innocent Muslim men, women and children in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, many in mosques while they were offering Salaat and in market places and in schools. They are not one of us.

  11. The comments of Shyema Sajjad,the Deputy Editor at Dawn, “With friends like these …”
    are very valid, very well written and thought provoking. They have wisdom in them and aught to be read with care, heeded as they provide more food for thought. An excellent job!

  12. altaf ahmed says:

    Can someone explain this :
    why were the security forces firing “warning” shots at the helicopters instead of firing at the militants as they came in running across the border?

    • I suppose you were there to see it all unfolding before your eyes? Or are you the proxy reporting agent of the Western Press spreading a rumour which may not have any factual basis to it?
      If you must know it is the standard practice worldwide with every country’s Armed Forces to fire warning shots at the bow and or starboard to warn the approaching aircraft that they are in prohibited airspace or are tresspassing. If the approaching craft heeds it, and turns away, all is considered well. In this situation it is likely the pilot of the approaching craft thought that he was being attacked and so hit back in self-defense. Or perhaps it was a “sinister” plot of NATO to create mischief. A error one time is an error but when it is repeated three times, it is a deliberate provation. I would not hesitate to hit the bastards should they venture to violate our airspace again.

  13. Raja Coventry says:

    Why the Government of Pakistan let the people from its territory to attack Afghanistan to violate the sovereignty of that country in the first place?

  14. two_worlds says:

    there are some facts missing from the debate .

    1. the border forces first fired at NATO. albeit warning shots but in hot pursuit , one can’t take the chance of trying to figure out if it was intended or not.
    2. the unforms worn by Pkaistan border soldiers is very close to tradional clothing worn by not only most pakistanis but more so by people in that region
    3. there is no clear demarkation of the border in that region. it gets very difficult to figure out when you have crossed over

    • ramzan lakhani says:

      Wise man….or trying to be
      Even Nato expressed apology on the incidence……….

    • Let’s leave it here. While we debate about who fired the first shot or warning shot, it has now been accepted by NATO that they had indeed violated Pakistan’s Airspace. The matter should rest at that. It is absolutely silly on any one to think that the identical uniforms was a factor in shooting, or that there is no clear demaraction of borders. The mighty United States and its NATO Allies boast of great technical and computer advances to the effect that they can map, and identify objects and planets in outer space which are millions of miles away from the Earth from the comfort of their computer rooms, so how is it they cannot see the difference of borders between Afganistan and Pakistan? They even boast of technological superiority to use infray rays to exactly obtain a live video image of the target on ground, and listen to every conversation in the area of survelliance, how can they not know where they are or who they are shooting. It is nothing but a provocative action designed with an ulterior motive to widen the conflict into Pakistan. Wake up to the reality, my “two_worlds” companion. You should thank God that Pakistan Armed Forces did not react in like manner to escalate the situation which is what the “enemy” wanted. Go figure who the “real enemy” is. It is at your gate.

  15. achilles says:

    well, Every thing is clear quite a little.that the Pakistani think tank clearly doesn’t know what is happening. it’s really heartbreaking. but it’s the Pakistanis alone to be blamed themselves for the situation they are in. instead of thinking of India they should try to focus on their own problems. No other nation is receiving aid like them. They have an excellent human resource which their politicians have corrupted and massacred.

  16. Proud to be Hindu says:

    This is the war not only for Pakistan but for whole world. irrespective of borders the terrorist should be hunt down. They are no ones friend. Not even of Islam. They have brought more shame to Islam then respect. Before this menace west was not ar war with islam but now it is. If one can read the newspapers from west UK,Netherlands,France,Germany and Denmark all have very powerful party’s against Islamic immigration. Recently in Netherlands Geet Wilders have become powerful against the immigration of non western nationality’s. The Burkha is going to be banned in France,Netherlands etc. If u all go like this in s/east Asia non of you will be elleigbel to travel out of your own country’s. Is it not wright time to keep away the petty differences for better cause and come out with solidarity to stop this menace of terror and fight with each other with democratic civilized way. Do not forget 60 years back you were same people of same country.

    • The one who is proud to be a Hindu should rightfully be proud indeed. Islam calls for tolerance of each others and other people from all walks of life. Fanatism whether from Christians, Jews, Muslims or Hindus must be checked rigorously each time it shows up its ugly head. Fanatism and fanatics and religious bigotry has no place in modern civilization. The concept of veil and burkhas is out dated and there is nothing mentioned in Islam about such practice. It is a few mischievous and hypocritical uneducated Mullahs who wish to retain some sort of twisted control over their women who go on propagating the burkha and veil. Islam simply states that women be moderate and cover up properly when they go out with a view to preventing the flaunting of their body as we see rampant in most Western world where women are scantly clad, and wear torn clothes in the name of fashion. In India and Pakistan as in most African and South East Asian countries the poor beggars can be identified with torn and rag tagged clothes. Yet this way of dressing is a big fashion and industry caters to it. In the West the living and earning philosophy seems to be, “the less you wear and more you expose. the better your marketability and chances of success”.

      • LahoriJUTT says:

        Please stick to whatever your Ph. D was in, because your knowledge of Islam is appalling.

        • Have you ever read, understood and followed the Quran carefully? I suggest you should begin by reading Surah Yasin first and follow it up by Surah Bakrah. Both the time keep your mind open and unbiased, and you will hear the Quran speaking to you. Only with age, wisdom and experience your comprehension will show you the Light. Light comes in when the doors to a blocked mind are open.

          Again read my comments carefully with an open mind, and May the God Lord grant you wisdom.

      • GKrishnan says:

        Professor Syed, Your reply seemed to be a reaction to the stated opinions of the so-called Proud Hindu guy, whose opinions are purely his own. Please desist. The only thing in your favour is that your usage of the English language was correct, whereas the Proud Hindu’s usage was atrocious indeed. And when it comes to morality, who among us has the authority to cast the first stone ?

  17. Tahir Rizvi says:

    The U.S. is the only friend Pakistan has had since its independence in August 1947. It is about time Pakistanis realize it and start acting friendly to the U.S and its people. Pakistan has always supported Muslim countries but never received any support back in return. It is about time Pakistanis recognize the historical facts and accept that the only friend Pakistan has is the United States of America.

    • Auranazeb says:

      You are correct. Even during the floods, only the west demonstrated compassion and came to help in real terms with men, materila nad money. The so called Muslim Brothers/ Countries” little siad is better.

      Our People of Pakistan, let us learn to read all and every thought and creed and be enlightened, othewise we will be doomed in darkness.

    • sakeel says:

      It seems like you are trying to get visa to settle in USA.

      • Auranazeb says:

        I think most Pakistanis would like to settle in the US. I hope Pakistanis in the US do not try to unsettle the US! We do have a reputation in the West whether we like it or not!!

      • Tahir Rizvi says:

        Pakistanis are proud people and a proud nation. Please do not forget it and do not under estimate Pakistanis.

  18. IK says:

    shyema actually wrote this!! wah wah… establishment truly has to decide…..

    • M. Aslam says:

      It is thought provoking commentary. The Establishment, if there is any, need to look at it seriously.

  19. hellooutthere says:

    i am an american and i can understand your rage…it is the same rage felt by americans when american soldiers are killed in incidents termed “friendly fire” in which soldiers are killed by their fellow troops …and yes i think (hope) this was an accident just like the accidental death of pat tillman, an american solider killed in iraq by “friendly fire”, who’s family is demanding answers from our military…this happens in war and yes “we the people” should demand an investigation into these incidents to find out how it happened so as to prevent future accidents and to prosecute if willful negligence is determined. but it does not justify the termination of our joint efforts to rid the world of the animals that are not only killing innocent people but destroying any chance for “we the people” to come to a peaceful understanding and friendship with one another. come on guys “we the people” need to all pull together and demand accountability from ALL governments and put an end to this madness…the pointing of angry fingers of blame is spiraling the world deeper and deeper into the abyss of chaos

    • Salma Khan says:

      To the helloou.. American….Pat Tillman was not killed in Iraq but in the mountains of Afghanistan. NATO should respect Pakistan’s sovereignty and stop Drone and Chopper attacks. You do not need an investigation if you know what the facts . Simply admit mistakes and do not repeat it….over and over again.
      By the way, what “animals” are you getting the world rid off? If you mean Afghans …shame on you! Anybody who invades another country on false pretexts and kill and maim hundreds of thousands is as much an animal as those who kill innocent people who have no part in this fight. You can not expect people to behave humanely if you bomb and kill innocents. Remember Vietnam!!! Bombing and burning those”animals” could not win you the war..you lost big time. Try LOVE and COMPASSION for a change!

  20. Sajjad Ahmed says:

    Someone mentioned above that we are in no position to retaliate now. Yes sir, you are right in a way. Our army shouldn’t have much say in our politics; but nevertheless, should we back on our present government to come forward with an iron fist while they’re roaming around the world with the “friends of Pakistan” notion ?? Two of my own friends, (yes young officers) and very close ones too – they’re killed fighting in uniform there. I dont think you can possibly comprehend any of it…
    yes, the cycle is complicated. But as a matter of fact, every military soldier, from the lowest grade to the top brass wants to retaliate on breaches of sovereignty. I ask you whats stopping them ?? You must realize that life is not all fine n dandy with the men in uniform. Army on its own cant take a step forward if the men controlling our government are continually bogged down by pressures from the West.

    • GF says:

      You got to be kidding me!! Army being controlled by men controlling the goverment….my friend its other way around. Its always the army running the show. Some time its on the stage and some time its behind the curtains. Our army is in full control of our foriegn and defence policies. Its about time that you guys take responsibility of the mess that paksitan is in today!

  21. S. A. M. says:

    Although we are very poor and we are surviving on aid given by the US/EU but someone who is trying to take undue advantage of someone’s difficult times may also find itself in deep troubles. you know bad actions come back to you like Boomerang. I wonder if it is our bad deeds that we are in such severe troubles. If this is the case the best thing is to accept our mistakes witha firm resolution that these shall never be repeated and that we shall do only good for the world. (SOunds like a teacher giving sermon to a naughty student!)

    • Nadeem says:

      Correct. Plus we should also analyze whether living without external aid is possible or not, considering the costs of this aid.

      • satwa gunam says:

        Hi,

        Pakistan is asking nobody is ready to give anything without a price. It is the choice of pakistan what to do.

  22. shiva says:

    This is a very tough situation – but has Pakistan ever excercised true control (sovereignity) over
    those wild-lands? Given that the NATO and Afghan soldiers in Afghanistan are being regularly slaughtered by the terrorist raiding-parties based in N. Waziristan, what should NATO do? Firstly, persuade the Pak troops to eliminate the terrorists in N.Waziristan. But after many years of inability of Pak troops to act against the pro-Pak Afghan Taliban in N. Waziristan, shouldn’t NATO do something to protect their own/Afghan troops?
    Ideally, Pak can tell NATO “We are very busy with many other things, so please take targeted action in N. Waziristan (only) to protect your troops in Afghanistan”. “Militants may not recognise borders but security forces should” does not look at the real problem. Clearly NATO does not want to take over any Pak land, just protecting themselves through tactical measures.

  23. Ram says:

    The security forces that died during NATO’s action inside Pakistan should be treated as collateral damage. It is war after all.
    US and Pakistan are on the same side. So, I dont understand why a brief and necessary violation of airspace by a friendly force to pursue unfriendly targets must be questioned.

    • While the United States and Pakistan have a “mutual enemy” and therefore must co-operate on the battle front, the right of pursuit of that enemy inside Pakistan’s national boundaries lies solely with the authorities in Pakistan as a sovereign state. In today’s modern warefare the information can be easily and instantly shared between two friendly forces fighting a common enemy. That is why friendly countries conduct joint war games in advance to hammer out the logistics and forge a military cooperation. Allowing such frequent airspace violations to go unchallenged by NATO could give rise to an unhealthy precedent whereby every country would go into each other’s country on some pretext. Enough is enough. Friends or foes, there are specific rules of engagement in war and defined protocols and pre-defined parameters to be followed. Surely Ram is not suggesting that he will allow his friends the right of entry into his home without his inviting them over, or without any prior arrangement or understanding?

      When two combatants fight in any war, deaths are expected. Collateral damage is when innocent civilians or non-war related property is damaged in the process. Then there is the “friendly fire” where allied soldiers (soldiers on the same side but from different countries) get caught in the cross fire or through a human error. The Pakistani soldiers who died as a result of NATO pursuit and intrusion inside Pakistan cannot be classified as “collateral damage”. They were non-participants and were caught unaware.

    • Shafi says:

      What if three NATO soldiers were killed By Pakistani forces? Would they consider it collateral damage.? Unlikely!

      • Priya Rathore says:

        Dear Mr.Shafi, the militants have been attacking and fleeing into Pakistan for a long time. It is only fair that they are pursued and brought to book. Sure, it is regrettable that Pakistan’s military personnel were caught in the crossfire. But shouldn’t they have stopped the militants in the first place? Is combating militancy the duty of the rest of the world and not Pakistan? I know you’ll cite Swat and S.Waziristan operations. All these operations did was send the militants into hiding only to surface when the army left.

      • MUDDASSIR says:

        I agree with you Mr. shafi…….i think Mr. Ram gives little value to the lives of pakistanis….

      • If “three NATO soldiers” were killed by Pakistani forces in an act of war or in actual combat, they would be classified as “casualties of war” and not as “collateral damage”. They would be deemed combatants. On the other hand if the “three NATO soldiers” were killed while manning their posts and not involved in a combat, then yes you could classify them as “collateral damage”. There is a difference in the two situation.

    • mehmoona says:

      we are on the same side , we are fighting the same war and therefore our contribution in terms of blood or brass is no less , therefore we do need is to be treated and respected as such, if it actually was accidental damage even then an apology is due, now just for a second suppose it was the othe way around Pakistani forces had accidently killed Nato troops would the same apology suffice?

  24. One can fool himself as much as he wants or play to be fooled but the fact remains, target is not Alqida or Taliban but Pakistan and Islam. Did any one ever figure out what does a circle of 360 degrees (Helkah) means and why it was divided in to two or trinity of 180 degrees. Who ever can figure it out he can find the answer for this war. No matter how much Pakistanis will oblige designs of gentiles (slaves) of pot head pretending to be Gods chosen will never change. Time to awake up Pakistan.

  25. paagle says:

    What is this “sovereignty”? Pakistan has little or no control over major portions of its country. If Pakistan had sovereignty in these regions, presumably it would prevent 7th century theocrats from using “Pakistani” territory for waging war in Afghanistan.

    • Darky, Lahore says:

      a small part of the thin strip of th fata tribal areas, is waging war all over the huge landmass of afghanistan. and the nato forces are impotent or incompetent? while more pakistani soldiers have died in the wot in south asia, than any other country?

  26. Muazzam Waqas says:

    I have no words to condemn all this but i request to PAK government that jst not think about the “AID”
    keep alive the pakistan and forces which is more valuable than our lives….

  27. Shazzi0507 says:

    The one thing I do not understand is that why do we get flamed up on our country’s sovereignty being violated? Why is it that only territorial sovereignty is given so much attention?

    Let me tell all the people commenting here is that sovereignty is compromised the moment one starts taking orders from someone else (an outsider). Pakistan has been on that track for decades. If decision and policy making is heavily influenced or even accepted on someone else’s terms, sovereignty is automatically compromise.

    We should stop crying over airspace violations and take back our country so that we make decisions based on our national interests rather than someone else’s—whoever that might be!

  28. Vince says:

    Yes you should all protest and tell the E.U. and the U.S to stop sending aid money.

  29. fida says:

    War on terror is ‘war” with out borders because modern terrorism is not confined by borders or boundaries and we need to understand this. Especially our military is involved in pursuing its interest. This is but natural that international community have to do some thing save the humanity from the scourge of terrorism. Interestlying Durand line is not a border but a geographical expression.

    • To understand how borders or boundaries get their definition one must understand that in every law there is what is known as the “law and practice”. While the Durand Line is not a “border”, it is nevertheless recognized as one through years of practice and custom in the geo-politics of the sub-continent and internationally accepted. Even the Russians, the occupiers of Afganistan during the Mujahideen War respected the durand Line and did not dare cross the Pakistani border in pursuit of their enemy. They recognized and respected the Durand Line. Likewise there is no Line of Control (LOC) between Indian and Pakistani controlled Kashmir, yet both respect it and consciously avoid crossing into each other’s space. What is so different for Durand Line?

      Now Consider this: when you buy a piece of land or lease a land from the government to build your house, the house when built belongs to you but the land always belongs to the state. The land is yours for 99 years only. The state once it leases the land to you cannot and does not infringe or trespass on your house without asking for your permission to enter it first.

      Nobody is saying don’t fight terrorism. What Pakistanis are saying do not violate our airspace or defined and accepted lines.

      • G. Din says:

        “…What Pakistanis are saying do not violate our airspace or defined and accepted lines.”
        Does this injunction apply to Taliban, too? Apparently, not. If they can cross the “defined and accepted lines”, so can those whom they are fighting. Is that too hard to understand?

        • The recent news reported that there was an agreement that Pakistan’s airspace had been violated by NATO; and it is good start. It is time G. Din understands it correctly; and no it is not hard to understand if one keeps an open unadulterated mind. Yes Pakistan is saying in no uncertain terms to the world that stop violating our airspace. This injunction applies to all regardless. However, historically there is a major difference between “friendly crossing” and “hostile crossing” of the borders particularly in and around the Durand Line. The people on both sides are members of extended family and have been crossing over to meet their kith and kins for centuries. In every country that shares its borders with another country, people living in and around the borders areas frequently cross into each other’s land with great ease. We hear of this in Sindh-Rajistan Border where people who share the same language, same culture and have family members living across each other’s borders move to and fro very often, almost on daily basis. Just to highlight a few other locations: US-Mexico Border, US-Canada Border, the whole of Continental Europe with very porous and fluid borders, and as well as recognition of the 12 mile international waters. Let’s stop asking NATO or meekly follow the Americans or the British, or any other European Forces. A nation will always be weak if it is on its knees. Stand up for your dignity, honour and right. No body will give it you, unless you learn to respect yourself and your people.

          The main difference between NATO, the sophisticated and technologically savvy Armed Force and the militants is that while militants may not recognise borders or are unable to recognize it due to not being tech smart, international security forces should have absolutely no excuse whatsoever. If US can boast of mapping the space and the far off planets from Earth, then surely to map and recognise the border of Pakistan, or accepting Durand Line should be an easy thing for them to do.

          This really should not be difficult for G.Din to comprehend.

  30. G.sriniwasan says:

    Kudos to Sheyma for a thought provoking article.The Pakistani state has enslaved themselves to
    the Americans,can they now protest on grounds of Soverignity.Security and Soverignity for a Nation comes with a Price.On one hand Pakistan State is going around to US/EU and International Financial Institutions with a Begging Bowl and on the hand protest about its infringement of territorial Intergrity.
    It is time,Pakistani state,its people,its Instiutions sets its House in Order.Respect will follow.


Generic viagra viagra Levitra online Levitra Levitra online viagra Viagra est une pilule . Spy mobile mobile spy Spy soft. Buy cigarettes online cigarettes cigarettes online. Casino online casino Casino

Viagra Cialis Levitra Kamagra tretinoin cream accutane buy viagra